tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post1041036928661518692..comments2023-11-05T01:53:40.235-06:00Comments on the Hipcrime Vocab: Walking AwayUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-30872049682021515362013-03-26T22:12:26.620-05:002013-03-26T22:12:26.620-05:00Thanks. No, I am a regular full time employee on t...Thanks. No, I am a regular full time employee on the lower rungs of the engineering department of a small manufacturing company. I make CAD drawings and fill out bills of materials. It is an activity that can be pleasant, but stops being all that interesting after the first ten times. I have no clue how one goes about getting a job that is easy, stress free and pays a decent amount. I just got lucky, no doubt. I do know that the people you work with make a huge difference. At my last job I was making less money, but the product was quite fascinating to me, so the work itself was enjoyable. But the human environment was terrible - management treated the employees like children, and that's how they acted. Now I am left alone to do as I please, so long as I get my work done, and my coworkers are pleasant even though we don't share much in the way of values. <br />I also truly believe that it made a huge difference to move to a small college city in the middle of the continent where I can walk downtown and not be surprised to run into someone I know.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04849047893375514085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-33168859577479261522013-03-26T17:58:27.395-05:002013-03-26T17:58:27.395-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-76664631600342826072013-03-26T17:57:00.821-05:002013-03-26T17:57:00.821-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-9287461212361569382013-03-26T17:19:03.930-05:002013-03-26T17:19:03.930-05:00"It has been my observation that vast majorit..."It has been my observation that vast majority of the 'dropping out' constituency is male."<br /><br />Interesting observation (although in our case it's the other way around - I would like to drop out and my more "realistic" husband always brings up the reality checks).<br /><br />It seems that life for women in a lot of agrarian societies was not simple. It's even harder if you don't have a community or family to help you while you are raising kids. Growing your own vegetables is nice, but most women would not want to wash piles of soiled diapers by hand. You'd have to be an amazingly efficient super-woman to help out on the farm, can all the produce, put healthy meals on the table three times a day, educate little ones, sweep the crumbs off the floor of your straw-bale hut, keep everyone in clean clothes (I find it challenging to keep up with laundry in the winter even with a washing machine!)... It can be done, and women have been doing it that way for most of history, BUT it's a full time job, and leaves very little time for getting anything else done. Most women do not want rural homekeeping as their sole life pursuit.cracked pothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07797149872632232682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-29937995737907236442013-03-26T10:24:32.743-05:002013-03-26T10:24:32.743-05:00Dear Escape:
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I wa...Dear Escape:<br />Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I wanted to add an even more personal note or reply.<br />On Saturday, a friend of ours was over for dinner. Well, a couple of friends. One of them is an architect. I'd say she's about 33... went to Berkeley, I believe. Anyway, she recently quit her day job at an architecture firm. She just hated the work. I think it was primarily residential. She didn't like the corporate/office scene. Somehow, she's suddenly had a lot of work come to her outside of that firm. Half standard architecture/design, the other have art/modelling stuff. She's really into CAD/3D printing/laser-cutting, etc. <a href="http://artshanty2012.tumblr.com/" rel="nofollow"> Here's a project she and her friends did last year.</a> An amazing sauna in a little Airstream trailer!<br /><br />So's she's quitting her day job and going out on her own. Another architect told her she's a "hunter" or a "rain-maker." She seems to believe it... that is, she believes she can make things happen, get projects. She is even looking for people to work with. Most of her architect pals are out in Berkeley, though. <br /><br />Will it work out for her? Who knows. <br />I know it's a long shot, but let me know if you want to communicate with her about collaborating. You are not that far away. She's really cool. Again, I know it's a long shot, but why not meet fellow female architects in your region?Jacob Gitteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10559764359800682222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-5808639630053895472013-03-25T22:09:38.568-05:002013-03-25T22:09:38.568-05:00Actually, I've designed my life to be able to ...Actually, I've designed my life to be able to drop out pretty well. I put my savings into a house, since it wasn't earning any money in the bank. Thanks to this I have a two bedroom house for less than I paid for my tiny 1-bedroom rental flat (note I live in the Rust Belt where houses are cheap. Don't try this in Florida, Arizona or Las Vegas). The only downside is the water bill and repair costs. So I can't put a roof over my head for much cheaper than I already do (although I sometimes wish I had gotten a rental property to bring in some extra income). I've been fixing up stuff now while I have an income so I won't have to worry about future maintenence, especially with an eye to lowering energy bills. Although sometimes when I read Dmitry Orlov I wish I'd gotten a houseboat on Lake Michigan.<br /><br />I drive as little as possible. I can walk to literally everything I need. I take the bus to work, and could take it wherever I needed to go. I still own a car, debt-free, although I still have to pay insurance, so my compomise is to try not to use it except for minor occasions on weekends. I bike in the summer, but haven't got the swing of winter biking.<br /><br />I wonder about getting a job in my neighborhood bartending or working at a local cafe or bakery. If it works out. Based on previous periods of unemployment and my study of the economy, I realized long ago that no matter your income, it pays to live on as little as possible, or at least have no obligations that take up more than 2/3 you income, which is what unemployment pays out. So many coworkers, their spending rises to the level of their income. I privately fear for them. They just think nothing bad will happen. Maybe their families will take care of them.<br /><br />Still, it's pretty lonely. In the Midwest it's all about having children as early as possible, living in the suburbs and rising up the corporate ranks. Money and status are big here. In my hipster neighborhood, there are a few people outside of that, but not many, and unlike New York, there aren't many single people over the age of 22. I've been outcompeted for the tattood hippie chicks by tattood hippie guys with rock bands and art galleries. I guess I don't look the part. Having a supportive partner is huge. I know this, if I had a girlfriend half as attractive as Ms. Bird, I'm sure I'd be a lot happier with life ;)escapefromwisconsinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369565788469048090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-84939750813435327742013-03-25T21:43:08.394-05:002013-03-25T21:43:08.394-05:00Actually, most jobs are somewhat bearable if you d...Actually, most jobs are somewhat bearable if you don't have to spend as much time at work. Even the worst job can be endured for a few days a week. And the irony is - there's no real reason we can't have a three day work week. That's why I've been advocating shortening the work week as the only logical and rational solution for the automation and jobs crisis. Why shouldn't we enjoy the benefits of increased productivity and efficiency by working less as had been the case up until the 1980s? Otherwise, what's the point of it all?<br /><br />So the irony is, we've never been in a better position to shrink the work week in history, but we're not doing it. Instead we have mass unemployment and rampant overwork side by side. How stupid is that?escapefromwisconsinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369565788469048090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-24547904602288481362013-03-25T21:36:32.000-05:002013-03-25T21:36:32.000-05:00Funny, my IT friend mentioned above is a big Pratc...Funny, my IT friend mentioned above is a big Pratchett (and Douglas Adams) fan. I should check him out.<br /><br />You've got the idea - most post-apocalytic fiction is about some dramatic major cataclysm and how it transforms society. Something like 'The Road'. But that's not very realistic. In reality, it's often nothing more than people losing faith in the system and walking away. A non-violent revolution, if you will, similar to Eastern Europe. The control structures fail, or people seek a better alternative.<br /><br />And here realistic characters become essential - because the inner life of the characters, their transformation and the rationale behind their decisions is the main thrust of the story rather than some sort of outside force. That's what is need to be articulated, because good fiction always articulates the spirit of the age. But it's much harder to do.escapefromwisconsinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369565788469048090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-48151409275779789922013-03-25T21:28:31.973-05:002013-03-25T21:28:31.973-05:00When I did took my Pernaculture Design Certificati...When I did took my Pernaculture Design Certification class it was during the real dark days for contruction. It became a running joke among us that I was hoping to get let go so I could go live on a Permaculture farm in South America. So I can relate. I was not let go.<br /><br />But I did get a look at the economics of farming, and it's tough. I'm averse to risk and debt by nature, so I don't think it's for me, at least that aspect of it.<br /><br />Good luck in you job search. That's the thing - in the old days, you were sure to find something. Now, employers are purposefully discriminating those who have not been in a job recently, simply because they can. The fear is exactly what employers want.<br /><br />Having an RV is pretty cool. Mark Boyle, "The Moneyless Man" lived in camper during his days without money - look up his story if you haven't heard it. Sometimes I harbor a fantasy of buying a VW camper and hitting the road as a mobile podcaster. It would be like the C-Realm, only it could come to you!escapefromwisconsinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369565788469048090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-59514116438391089882013-03-25T21:20:54.532-05:002013-03-25T21:20:54.532-05:00Bad? No, I don't think so.
Perhaps you can wr...Bad? No, I don't think so.<br /><br />Perhaps you can write love letters to people: <br /><br /><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21900202" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21900202</a>escapefromwisconsinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369565788469048090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-7334677346159711422013-03-25T21:08:40.020-05:002013-03-25T21:08:40.020-05:00I always have to smack my head when economists tal...I always have to smack my head when economists talk about how money facilitates things. Try telling that to an architect, or director, or any kind of artist. Money - not anything else- is always the *limiting* factor.<br /><br />And this attempt to put a price on all of nature by calling them "ecosystem services" is the most bizzare thing ever. Has it come to this? It is reminiscent of all those scientists who attempted to determine the weight of a human soul.escapefromwisconsinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02369565788469048090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-51343277111529019852013-03-25T18:55:00.540-05:002013-03-25T18:55:00.540-05:00A few loosely organized comments:
I think it is us...A few loosely organized comments:<br />I think it is useful to recognize that there are no 'solutions' to this problem. There are mitigations. A variety of choices. I am happy that when Ran Prieur updated his 'How to drop out' page, he included the option of not dropping out all the way exactly. It is also good to remember that Ran has an independent income that he can live on so long as he remains frugal. <br /><br />I know someone who has dropped out and has been living 'self-sufficiently' for at least 20 years. He lives in town, in a house that he owns, he grows all of his own food and what money he needs comes from the produce that he sells. He does not have a car, electricity, or running water. He cooks and heats his house with a wood stove. Last I heard, he lived on about $2000 a year, and the vast majority of that was spent on property taxes. He buys a new pair of boots every few years. The land he grows his crops on is borrowed from an owner who has an interest in it not being developed. He works very hard during the growing season, and has lots of free time during the winter. He plays music, and is probably the most well-read person I know in the topics that interest him. He lives alone.<br /><br />It has been my observation that vast majority of the 'dropping out' constituency is male.<br /><br />What I do is a compromise. I have not had a career so much as a succession of jobs. Like nearly all of 'professional' America, I am paid to look at a computer screen for 8 hours a day. I have avoided the career track, so I get paid hourly, and do not work overtime. Like most jobs I have had, the current one is not hard, and does not require 8 hours to get done. I can usually find ways to amuse myself for the duration. My job is only an easy way to get money, and it provides me with enough so I can save some, but not enough to ever have a fully funded retirement. I have gotten pretty good at maximizing my evening and weekend time to do the things that I am actually interested in. I am in my 50's, married, have no debt and no children at home. I am able to own real estate mostly because my parents died before they could spend their estate. In other words, it is complicated, and I can't write a prescription for how anyone else can work out a solution like mine.<br /><br />I can say this: my life got a lot easier once I got off the coast and out of a major metropolitan area.<br /><br />Also, it is possible to legally not pay any federal income tax, if you meet these 3 criteria:<br />-you are married<br />-your adjusted gross income is less than $34,500<br />-you contribute up to $2500 to a 401k or IRA. The exact amount depends on your income.<br />The details are on IRS form 8880<br /><br />Cheers,<br />EricErichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04849047893375514085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-12906959356565996432013-03-25T14:22:40.945-05:002013-03-25T14:22:40.945-05:00PukeSkywalker:
I understand. My own partner is not...PukeSkywalker:<br />I understand. My own partner is not really ready to "drop out." She would certainly move to a rural or backwoods commune, if we still had access to modern healthcare, and she had a sauna, and was not physically uncomfortable. And we do have a child. I think she wants him to have access to the "benefits" of the city. And I have to admit, I like to be able to bring him to the art museums, science museum, etc.<br /><br />Puke (it's hard for me to type that name!): consider at least starting to learn good future skills, such as gardening, carpentry, and anything else that helps make you self-sufficient. I would worry, though, if you defer your dreams too long. That is really bad for relationships. You could start to acquire the tools and land, and find the right people, and start building that future way of life. It sounds like your current partner, though, might never be on board with that. You state, "Though she is not willing to live the lifestyle I want." Will you be able to be happy with your life if she never gives your vision a chance?<br /><br />For myself, I a creating a plan to head out into some kind of adventure, and it will happen come hell or high water.Jacob Gitteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10559764359800682222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-81398080374123786492013-03-25T11:38:12.031-05:002013-03-25T11:38:12.031-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-18185953686965188592013-03-25T11:15:23.431-05:002013-03-25T11:15:23.431-05:00mwk's comment above made me think, particularl...mwk's comment above made me think, particularly this statement: "But I have also learned that fantasies about dropping out and living off-grid and studying permaculture for a living are just that, and that without income your quality of life quickly plummets."<br /><br />Why would you study permaculture "for a living"? Maybe permaculture isn't "for a living," but actually is your living? That is, it could provide much or most of what you need to survive, and the work would be meaningful. And barter for the stuff you can't provide for yourself or in your community.<br /><br />And PukeSkywalker above also dropped out, then went back in, even though it's worse.<br /><br />What is it they really need all of this "income" for? Why do they (and myself included), really need so much income in the form of money, rather than income in the form of food you can grow, and items you can make yourself or that your close-knit community members can make?<br /><br />I would hazard a guess that neither of them discovered or created a community of like-minded people who can form a large enough nucleus of people to become somewhat independent.<br /><br />I would also guess that a fair percentage of people who drop out find that they are psychologically unprepared to deal with giving up the needless luxuries of modern life, such as smartphones, constant Internet access and social media (as opposed to using the local public library), and prepackaged food, etc.<br /><br />I no longer believe that "living off the grid" in a small cabin, or on a houseboat, or some other novel method, is really as labor intensive as claimed. Gardening efficiently enough to provide most of your sustenance is possible, especially with modern organic farming methods. It is possible to work a few hours per week, or build stuff, or do a service, to get enough income for the things you can't make yourself.<br /><br />The main source of a drain on our income that requires us to work too much is really taxes: the government's demands that you pay them a large percentage of your income to simply live. The only way to get around it is to live so simply that there is nothing left to tax. <br />It can be done, if you are willing to give up your addictions to things you don't need, and can find a small group of comrades who have diverse skills. You can't do it alone, and you can't do it if you are not really willing to give up the superfluous.Jacob Gitteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10559764359800682222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-46432461660606531542013-03-24T22:17:10.948-05:002013-03-24T22:17:10.948-05:00I can imagine it. A bit more every day.
Please wr...I can imagine it. A bit more every day.<br /><br />Please write the book.<br /><br />There is a way out. :-)verahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06823525858589365541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-72540177798661366102013-03-24T19:55:35.934-05:002013-03-24T19:55:35.934-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-33640279662594984292013-03-24T18:32:25.587-05:002013-03-24T18:32:25.587-05:00Walk away? Why on Earth would you walk away? To ...Walk away? Why on Earth would you walk away? To walk away leaves the entire proprietarian-capitalist system intact. What we need is to destroy it.<br /><br />Though actually, I've been itching to write something along these lines myself for a while. My problem is that, like most other scifi fans in *ever*, I suck at characters.<br /><br />Want to collaborate?<br /><br />Actually, for a start, pursue your own thoughts by reading Pratchett and Baxter's "The Long Earth".Eli Senneshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270702305052599002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-81233908679054099812013-03-23T22:14:14.925-05:002013-03-23T22:14:14.925-05:00I quit my well-paid but incredibly stressful job t...I quit my well-paid but incredibly stressful job that I hated one year ago next week. For the past 12 months I have traveled the country and spent extended time exploring Peru, where I learned the basics of permaculture and Spanish.<br /><br />Now I'm back in the states, living in my RV and most likely going to attempt a return to the industry I left last year. I am just not going to climb the ladder this time around; I'm more than content to take the less-stressful, lower paid jobs instead.<br /><br />Of course whether or not I can get hired is another story.<br /><br />Do I regret quitting? No. Not at all. I hated that job and it was making me physically ill. But I have also learned that fantasies about dropping out and living off-grid and studying permaculture for a living are just that, and that without income your quality of life quickly plummets. I wish it weren't so, but alas, at the end of the day it all comes back to fucking money.mwkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09755201143409182883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-5482725361630697612013-03-23T17:44:03.922-05:002013-03-23T17:44:03.922-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tom Gaspickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512002805129573697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5813525365834911757.post-11734320507344021712013-03-23T14:49:20.506-05:002013-03-23T14:49:20.506-05:00You're breaking my heart!
If there is no way ...You're breaking my heart!<br /><br />If there is no way to not be miserable, then just work to live. Spend any other time you have doing SOMETHING that brings you joy. Or happiness. Or satisfaction, at least.... <br /><br />I'm trying to cultivate gratefulness in order to lessen my dissatisfaction with my life and to give my soul a little balm. But my real fountain of daily happiness comes from my internal (usually fiction) fantasy life. Is that bad? Rozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06209369571212459778noreply@blogger.com